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Professed newbie, working on my first guitar, so your indulgence is greatly appreciated.

I've got my router, done tons of test cuts on 2x4's and such to make sure it's set up right and my technique is good. I think I got it done...test cuts look nice.

So I take it to the guitar and very trepidatiously start to cut the binding channel. Starts out okay, I'm happy. Three cuts were good. I do the fourth (clockwise to prevent tearout). I finish it and guage the depth of it. It's about 1/16"+ too deep at several spots around the body. After much analysis and further test cuts, I find out the depth lock isn't holding, the router slips in the collar, and it very slowly and gradually cuts a deeper channel.

The router I have is this one. It's okay, but obviously the depth lock isn't satisfactory.

Two questions:
1) Can I fix this goof? The depth of the binding channel is about 1/16" deeper than the binding in several spots. There will obviously be a gap if I don't do something. Do I buy deeper binding and route the entire channel to the deeper depth?

2) Any recommendations on a router that doesn't have this problem? I've heard the Porter Cable routers are good.

Thanks very much and I do appreciate your help.

Mark

Wider binding or add some perfling lines to make up the differance. As for the router. Get a piece of 2" wide 100 grit PSA sandpaper and wrap around the body. Don't overlap. The base should tighten and not slip.

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Following up on Hesh's comment, I've had to glue in small offcuts from sides beneath the binding channel before. In fact, on the guitar I'm hoping to finish today, I had inadvertantly installed the incorrect bearing for my binding channel cutter, and made too deep of a cut. It cut all the way through the side into the tentalones, and splintered the side along about a 3" section before I caught the goof. I went ahead and installed the binding, cleaned up the gap some, and then cut a piece from a side offcut, shaped it with sandpaper until it was a good fit in the gap, and glued it in place. It stuck up slightly proud of the side, and I used a chisel to bring it down flush. Filled a couple of small gaps with CA. Really, unless you're looking for it, you can't see it.

I use a DeWalt laminate trimmer for cutting my binding/purfling channels. I know the PC is a good product, but I've been quite happy with the DeWalt.

Best,

Michael

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I'd also add purfling lines or find some taller binding.
This is definately a recoverable thing though.
I once had a bearing come off the cutter when I was cutting a channel, ouch

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Another vote for the Porter Cable PC 310 or even the 7310 that i have and love. i also have a Crapsman that survives in my shop only because my Godfather gave it to me last year, thinking it was gonna help me in lutherie! The PC routers are not only loved here but in almost every lutherie website i visited, the guys or gals had one!

Taller binding would be the way to go for you IMHO!

Thanks guys! Appreciate the help very much. The binding I have is rosewood binding with w/b/w purfling strips on the bottom. I was thinking I could get another black purfling strip to fill the gap, instead of buying all new binding that is taller.

Any problems at all the the Porter Cable routers slipping while they're in use? With the router I have, after I discovered the slipping problem, I added a hose clamp around the collar and tighted it, but it still slipped while I was cutting. I'm so frustrated (event though I shouldn't be since this is my first guitar).

Thanks much,
Mark

[QUOTE=Michael McBroom]
I use a DeWalt laminate trimmer for cutting my binding/purfling channels. I know the PC is a good product, but I've been quite happy with the DeWalt.

Best,

Michael
[/QUOTE]
Michael,

Which DeWalt router do you have? Just trying to get a few ideas to compare against.

Best,
Mark

I have 2 PC routers, and a PC 310 laminate trimmer. I also have a Ridgid lam trimmer that I would probably use more, if the depth adjustment wasn't so pathetic. Then there is the Hitachi which will be relegated to doing tenons and mortises for necks - it's a big heavy beast - very stable with lots of power.

One PC is on the router table, one on the radius jig, and the 310 is on the binding jig.

I love the PCs, the one on the router table is over 8 years old, and still going strong!

-Mark

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Doe's anyone else have or use one of these. I do and its a great tool with plenty of power 18volts. Bought it at the local Home Depot oop's I mean BORG. Great for binding with no cord to get in your way.

Mark, it seems to me that it might be well worth getting all new binding for this guitar. A few reasons:

1. It ain't that much money.
2. Adding another purfling when there's already a b/w/b purfling on there might not look so good.
3. If the binding is already bent, it will be difficult to add more purfling - much easier to glue it onto the binding before the binding is bent.
4. You might come up with some great new ideas for a different kind of binding and purfling to use -- nothing against rosewood with b/w/b, but the possibilities are endless... maybe something with a little more pizzazz?

Rather than trying to fudge it with the binding you have, if you just start fresh with new binding and create a purfling scheme you really like, you'll be much happier with what you end up with. Your patience and perseverance will pay off.

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Mark,

My DeWalt is the model DW670:



No way does it slip. Even though it isn't a proper router, it has plenty of grunt (7/8 hp) for cutting binding and rosette channels, which is what I use it for. You can find it on the web for less than a hundred bucks.

It's possible to use the trimmer with the side attachment and a downcut spiral bit for the binding and purfling cuts, but I already had a bit and bearing set, which takes the guesswork and setup tweak worries out of the process -- unless you grab the wrong bearing.

Best,

Michael

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[QUOTE=Todd Rose] Mark, it seems to me that it might be well worth getting all new binding for this guitar. A few reasons:

1. It ain't that much money.
2. Adding another purfling when there's already a b/w/b purfling on there might not look so good.
3. If the binding is already bent, it will be difficult to add more purfling - much easier to glue it onto the binding before the binding is bent.
4. You might come up with some great new ideas for a different kind of binding and purfling to use -- nothing against rosewood with b/w/b, but the possibilities are endless... maybe something with a little more pizzazz?

Rather than trying to fudge it with the binding you have, if you just start fresh with new binding and create a purfling scheme you really like, you'll be much happier with what you end up with. Your patience and perseverance will pay off.
[/QUOTE]

Todd,

What you suggest makes sense, and I will give it some thought. The reason I haven't jumped on that is because the binding channel is actually pretty good in most spots. There are just a couple spots where it's a hair too deep, and one where it's about 1/16" too deep. Which is why I think I should be able to fill those couple gaps with strips of mahogany and sand flush, using CA and the sawdust to help blend the gaps. I do like the rosewood binding I have so I'd like to try to salvage the job instead of routing deeper for new binding. Does that make any sense?

Thanks very much,
Mark

[QUOTE=Michael McBroom] Mark,

My DeWalt is the model DW670:



No way does it slip. Even though it isn't a proper router, it has plenty of grunt (7/8 hp) for cutting binding and rosette channels, which is what I use it for. You can find it on the web for less than a hundred bucks.

It's possible to use the trimmer with the side attachment and a downcut spiral bit for the binding and purfling cuts, but I already had a bit and bearing set, which takes the guesswork and setup tweak worries out of the process -- unless you grab the wrong bearing.

Best,

Michael
[/QUOTE]


This is the same one I have on my binding jig also. Very good tool.

Ron

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I hope I am not repeating what some one else has already said but the problem is less the router and more the router base. If you did not build a tapered donut or tapered wedge to attach to the bottom of the router to counter act the dome of the top and back the router will pitch as you travel around the guitar. Cutting deeper in some areas and shallow in others. A wedge shape on the base will help hold the router parallel to the sides. A 4 deg wedge is a good average between a 15' back radius and a 25' top radius. If you use a fixture that holds the router and you move the guitar around it a small donut about 1/2" big er dia than you cutter and with about a 1/4" section of contact will work by allowing the router to ride on a very small section of the top or back. There by eliminating the problem cause by the dome of the back or top.

I use a DW670 as well, put a doughnut on the bottom, and a downcut spiral bit and to me it's unbeatable for binding, and a lot of other jobs.

Colin

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[QUOTE=Colin S] I use a DW670 as well, put a doughnut on the bottom, and a downcut spiral bit and to me it's unbeatable for binding, and a lot of other jobs.

Colin[/QUOTE]
I did put a small rounded piece of wood on the bottom of the router base, but it wasn't a donut. Where can I get a donut or how can I make one?

Again, the problem wasn't the width of the channel, but the depth, due to a poorly designed depth-lock on the router. I limped through the rest of the binding cut and except for a few spots, it looks okay, so I think I'll try to just repair those spots instead of re-routing and getting taller binding. And I will be buying a new router for future bulds (assuming there will be future builds).

Thanks very much.

Good luck, Mark. It sounds like you're repair plan will work out.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Yes Mark, if it is only minor cracks that you have to fill in, it should work fine, let us know how it goes!

Yes the dome is most likly to cause width issues but remember the centerline of the bit is outside the cut perimiter. if the base tilts toward the side(microscopicly) toward the side you get a channel that is a deep and wide ant the botttom an narrow at the top. If it yaws right to left you get a consttant width but the extrem edge of the flute is now deeper. This tends to happen more at the waist and upper bout because the travel of the bodies curves change quick in relationship to the axis of the dome. This may not have been your issue. but I have seen this happen many times.

[QUOTE=Michael McBroom] Mark,

My DeWalt is the model DW670:



No way does it slip. Even though it isn't a proper router, it has plenty of grunt (7/8 hp) for cutting binding and rosette channels, which is what I use it for. You can find it on the web for less than a hundred bucks.

It's possible to use the trimmer with the side attachment and a downcut spiral bit for the binding and purfling cuts, but I already had a bit and bearing set, which takes the guesswork and setup tweak worries out of the process -- unless you grab the wrong bearing.

Best,

Michael
[/QUOTE]

I have one as well. I like it but the bugger sure gets hot at the base coller. I wear gloves to handel it.

[QUOTE=Hesh1956] Mark if you go to Stew-Mac's site and go to the D****N****T kit page the instructions are a PDF file that you can download for free. In the instructions they tell you how to make a doughnut.[/quote]

I'm probably missing it but I didn't see any instructions in that PDF file to make a doughnut. If you're talking about the file names i-5295.pdf, if you could kindly point me to a page number, I can take it from there.

Many thanks,
Mark